Nosliw

[TheReasoning]

Banned indefinitely for the following reasons:

1. Refusing to explain crucial bugs to the staff
2. General Disrespect
3. Conspiracy to advertise

This post shall be locked in order to avoid an unneeded argument which is bound to happen anyways.

Hopefully this amuses you Sam.

Good day.

[Vector]

I'm not doubting your judgement over this, but please PM me the details. I cannot engage in an active conversation as I'm still on vacation, but I would like to know what went down with this.

[TheReasoning]

We shall speak once you get home. Don't disturb your holiday for us, enjoy yourself.

[Eggnaug]

I love how this thread got closed before Nosliw had the chance to appeal. 

Like every other player, he has the right to appeal.

Hopefully this amuses you Sam.

That comment was extremely unprofessional.

[Vector]

I have taken the pleasure of unlocking this thread, at least with Nosliw in mind.

Just speak your peace Nosliw, I don't want any fights breaking out in this thread from any party. I leave it unlocked at least for the benefit of an appeal.

[mercilessdegree]

Woahwoahwoah
I'm not sticking up for Nosliw here, but last time he did half of what he was banned for not doing here, Alpha threw a hissy fit (Sorry sis, but it's true ) Maybe he would only discuss that sort of thing with Alpha? I know personally I wouldn't discuss it with anyone but him, mostly because he's the person in charge and knows more of what he's actually doing.

[Nosliw]

Well then, time for me to actually get a say in this, sorry that it's a little late, wasn't going to do this so close to Christmas.

From my point of view, I was casually chatting on the server, until an idea regarding a bug that I had to fix elsewhere popped into my head, and I wondered if Alpha had fixed it yet, since he seemed so rushed about it. So I went in search of a place to test it, and found the perfect conditions on TheReasoning's's lot, so I gave it a shot, and it worked, SGT then came along and I showed him. He then blocked off the spawn to TheReasoning's first lot, but I found other ways to gain access, then attempted to tell SGT, but he ignored this fact. I had another idea regarding a different bug and was unable to test it out on the server, so I checked in the source code to see if there was anything preventing this from occurring, and I found nothing. This bug was much more serve than the previous bug, I did however say that I found it (in hindsight maybe I should have not said anything) and decided it would be best to tell Alpha directly because of the severity of the bug. Shortly after TheReasoning came online in a bad mood (something about some kind of exams or sleep?), and asked about the bugs, he already knew about the first one that I told SGT, but I tried to avoid telling him the second bug, because it seemed more likely that it could be leaked, here is my logic behind this:

Tell Alpha -> He either fixes straight away, or puts on a 'Private' ticket in Redmine, ensuring no-one else knows.
Tell Staff -> They will tell alpha and likely put it on a public Redmine ticket, other staff would also see, and they would be inclined to test it out (human curiosity). This could lead to users finding the bug, or non-rainbow moderators using it straight up (similar incident to SkyeHeart). This all seems a pointless amount of risk when I could just tell Alpha straight up. (You might say that yes, Staff should be trusted and etc. but the simple truth is that is what people are like, and its better to not take the risk, Control > Trust)

I think there was also something about me using a flying feather in this story somewhere, but that was me generically having fun, and I told them Alpha is already aware of this. Sure I my tone of voice was a little off, but I Was just trying to have some fun, being pestered by staff who seem to have a grudge against you just isn't fun, and if I logged out I had a feeling I would get banned anyway. So we continue on for a little while and then out of no-where I was banned for 10 days, without a ban thread (from SGT I am told). I try to get a ban thread posted or at least find out why, but I get nothing for at least a day (I can't remember how long exactly), and then out of the blue I get a message from my brother that Egg has sent me said something, as well as a forum PM that says this: (Sorry if it is supposed to be private Egg, you didn't specify)

Sorry about your situation with being banned without a proper ban thread. Because of the actions of my fellow staff members and their lack of following basic banning rules, I have decided to unban you myself. Please feel free to report SGT_ADZ for improperly banning you without stating a reason.

~Eggnaug

When I view this, I then log into the server, and I think first see Lue, he seems surprised and etc. I log out and log-in later, I think it was TheReasoning who was online, I didn't say a word, and then was instantly Perm Banned. I asked the Reasoning over Skype and got this..

[24/12/2013 11:54:45] Magical_One: Stop snaking your way around the rules. Prick.

It took a while of arguing over Skype to get him to finally post me a ban thread, and it was locked anyway.. Until Alpha unlocked it and then this occurred. Its been a tedious trip, and a long waste of time to finally get to this point, I would be happy if this was resolved already. This account is as best as I can remember at this moment, I may have missed or jumbled up the order of some details, but you get the generic idea. I realize that you probably wont accept any quotes given, but I threw them there anyway because they help me tell my story.

[Eggnaug]

From what I'm reading, you did inform them about the first bug and you did not want the staff team knowing about the other bug because it's too easy to do and could be dangerous if known to the public and you had intents to inform AlphaBlend, but you were never given the chance to do so before you received the initial ban.

[Vector]

That seems like a very hard situation to be in, finding a bug and not able to tell anyone about it. It looks like SGT chose the wrong way to go about this, about not wanting to be aware of the bug at all, and even jumping to conclusions and blocking off TheReasoning's spawn. Nos was just trying to be a good guy and explain a bug.

The second bug, although more severe, should have been spoken to the highest authority, if not trusted to be told to those of the moderator rank. As a developer, you tend to trust only fellow developers because no one else should be made aware of bugs and what their potential is. Thing is, the only developer is me, so in that situation it's hard to know what to do if I am not available. I see 2 mistakes that were made during this whole thing:

1) A moderator who was aware that bug testing was going on chose to not be cognizant of the fact the bug existed and chose to take another route, assuming Nos was just abusing a bug to gain a certain advantage. Nos and I have maintained a good friendship despite all the garbage that has happened lately. He's just trying to be a good citizen but something else seems to be getting in the way.

2) Nos refused to tell even anyone, including those I've trusted with the rank of Administrator. I've entrusted these people with even more control, and it is very unlikely they will end up using knowledge of this bug in an environment that can put the bug in the public eye, unless they make a mistake. I know that they have the best interests of Innectis at their decision-making abilities, and do not want problems to arise.

In the long run, the staff only did what they felt was necessary for the time being. If anything, this ban certainly sent some warning signals for what could happen if someone retains knowledge of a bug. I also think that more care could have been put into this.

Bottom line, Nos, you should have PM'd me on the forum after testing out the bug. SGT, you should have asked Nos what he was doing, knowing full well he was once a developer for IDP and may be simply testing a possible vulnerability.

In the future, I think that if a staff member is present, they should at least be briefed on the bug if they ask about it, and they can then put it as a private ticket on redmine. Like you said, no one else needs to know about it, but if one of the staff asks, they have the right to know. It is then their fault if the bug gets leaked, and there's me to deal with if that happens.

As far as the ban, I think you've served enough time.  Ban reversed.

Also, there was a conspiracy to advertise. What's this about?

[SGT_ADZ]

Nos told me ONE of the bugs. I didn't ignore anything. I blocked off the spawn to prevent other people from entering the lot. I then proceeded to tell Ashtyn to lot ban everyone for the time being. Where do you find evidence to accuse me of ignoring things? I did the ban for Ashtyn, not for me. I dont know how I can be any clearer with this.
Talk to me on Skype or Facebook Joel, if possible.

[Vector]

Not enough thought was put into my decision, which was going to be like a 5 day join ban or something. Sorry about switching my mind.  That much would at least give a bit more time to think over this.

So that is what I'm going to do. However, I logged out of the console. SGT, proxy for me?

[SGT_ADZ]

Done. Banned for 5 days effective on next join.

[Nosliw]

So what's the reason behind this 3rd ban?

[Vector]

At least it's still not an indefinite ban. That's pretty much to think about what happened. Think about your actions. Do not play games with staff when it comes to bugs. They have a right to know.

[Nosliw]

At least it's still not an indefinite ban. That's pretty much to think about what happened. Think about your actions. Do not play games with staff when it comes to bugs. They have a right to know.

So.. ontop of all of the time I have already served waiting for a response or even to be able to post, I have to wait another 5 days because you were unclear in the rules? I told the staff openly about a bug, but the other one I refuse to tell to them because its too high risk.. It doesn't matter to me how much you trust them, I'm going to continue to operate on the old ways because to me, they seemed to work best. Also somewhere you mentioned Staff creating private tickets, are you sure they can do this? I thought it was only Developers that could read/write private tickets..