Permanent bans

[Vector]

Freddie impacted us a lot. I am not ready at all for him to come back. So have others. The staff care deeply about the community, we're not going to make a decision that will have much negative impact. Please don't look at this decision as that in ANY way.

[Nicolethenikki]

Freddie impacted us a lot. I am not ready at all for him to come back. So have others. The staff care deeply about the community, we're not going to make a decision that will have much negative impact. Please don't look at this decision as that in ANY way.

Then who ARE being considered for ban lifting?

[Vector]

That depends. It's not like we have a list, ready to unban at a moment's notice. We weigh their past behavior on the community, how long they've been banned, the impact they had, and other factors.

Remember, it is our decision that they were banned in the first place, we're more than capable of determining if they deserve another shot.

[gohkamikaze]

If there is a moment where any of you guys become indefinitely banned, you'll be thanking Alpha when we reconsider the ban at a later date.

I'm sure Fangula thanked Alpha many times.

Seriously, what we're dealing with here is essentially a code of laws. You're telling me that even the worst of the worst murderers, psychopaths and thieves aren't up for spending the rest of their lives behind bars?

It's not that I hate 'indefinate bans', it's that rather than admitting you made a mistake and putting correct processes in place to ensure that it doesn't happen again, you throw it out the window and establish a solution that suits yourself better.

If you want my opinion on what should be done here, I say work out a process of review that determines when a person doesn't deserve another chance, and keep indefinate bans as a sort of limbo that goes with that process. Hell, I'll even help you set something like that up if you want. But for the love of all that is good and right in this world, don't throw permas use out the window because your subjective religious affiliation says they're not necessary. Being raised as a Lutheran I can see that Christianity works that way, however society as a whole does not.

[SGT_ADZ]

Let's wait until Freddietrev comes back.... We'll all be equally screwed until you guys do something about it without denying our reports.

Not if I have anything to do with that,

Side Note:
Considering this decision was made with the consultation of 2 of our staff members...I'll just shut up, my opinion obviously doesn't matter in this instance.

[mercilessdegree]

goh, perma bans have pretty much always been this anyway. A lot and I do mean a lot of perma bans have been revoked before and a lot of people were not happy with it. The reason they were never happy with it is because fhey fail to see how people CAN change and it is the fact people  CAN change that Alpha sees and why he made the decision of indefinate bans for the server. Indefinate bans is a much better idea in a whole than permanent bans, but the way it fits into the server will take a little time to work out and settle in. I know some people who will never be happy with it (As ever, I don't name names) but tough luck. I came on and read this post and very few of you even had the decence to consider the idea and respect the servers owbers decision, why not try coming up with your own ideas for a few days instead of critisizing everyone elses JUST because they don't suit your way of doing things. Besides it isn't like most people who were permabanned will even read this topic, let alone come back.

[gohkamikaze]

goh, perma bans have pretty much always been this anyway. A lot and I do mean a lot of perma bans have been revoked before and a lot of people were not happy with it. The reason they were never happy with it is because fhey fail to see how people CAN change and it is the fact people  CAN change that Alpha sees and why he made the decision of indefinate bans for the server.

I did state that permas had been revoked in the past for little more than 'maybe they'll be different this time...' Like I said, I'm not hostile to indefinites per se, I just don't believe that any server should get rid of permabans altogether. That seems extremely counter-productive, as I'm sure many will agree and have agreed on this thread.

This is not about failing to see the good in people. This is about not drawing a line and knowing when to say 'enough is enough'.

I know some people who will never be happy with it (As ever, I don't name names) but tough luck. I came on and read this post and very few of you even had the decence to consider the idea and respect the servers owbers decision, why not try coming up with your own ideas for a few days instead of critisizing everyone elses JUST because they don't suit your way of doing things. Besides it isn't like most people who were permabanned will even read this topic, let alone come back.

"As ever, I don't name names". I presume you're implying myself or SGT? That line seems unnecessary and if any thing a veiled barb that you certainly know people will pick up on. But, I digress. I'm not here to argue semantics.

I have been extremely vocal about my stance on Permabans for well over two years now, and have suggested on countless occasions that there needs to be protocols in place that determine when it is right to permaban someone. This simple bit of planning would fix everything, clarify any confusion between staff and players and on the whole benefit the server greatly. However, my suggestions have gone unheeded. I even made a suggestion in my last post on this topic. Don't lecture me about not being productive.

As for permabanned members coming back and reading the topic, I admit you have a point there. Many of the previously permabanned members have since moved on and have not been seen around the forums for quite some time. However, this is not going to be the case in the future. When I said it sets a bad precedent, this decision gives the impression that you can, in the end, get away with anything without final and definitive consequences.

I don't want to start a revolution. I don't want to start a mob out for Alpha's head. I want basic common sense and the fundamental principles of Law to be used over moral judgements.

[CanadianR]

Ok, can somebody just lock this, please, it's getting a little out of hand, I am not the longest running person on here, so I don't know who is right, nor do I care, all I know, is that a lot of you are being ridiculous. As for the idea itself, it has some decent reason behind it, but it could be tweaked a little, I understand people can change, I know, to be honest, I am A LOT different than I was 3 or 4 years ago. On the other hand some just are stuck in their habits and either will not, or will take a lot to change. End of my point, and I hope the drama can end, this is not a cheesy reality tv show.

[Vector]

This doesn't actually guarantee that someone will be unbanned, however. It just simply allows us the freedom of being able to determine if they're able to come back. Some people may never come back.

And I'll do as Canadian wished, because this is pretty ridiculous.

[TheReasoning]

I agree with SGT. The idea of indefinite bans shows weakness. It gives players more freedom in what they do, they can manipulate the staff into undoing a permanent ban. Sure not everyone is that undermining, but it is a flaw in the system.

This idea if an indefinite ban is "too nice". Case closed